Wage theft steals billions from workers every year, often from immigrants and low-wage Angelenos who can least afford it. In this episode of The Signal, Dino follows the money: from national research, to Sacramento’s new enforcement law, to L.A.’s own wage office and frontline attorneys fighting back so stolen paychecks actually reach workers, and what it all means for you, your job, and your rights.
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TRANSCRIPT
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
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ANNOUNCER
FK dawg. And we thank you for your support.
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ELLIOT
Hi, this is Elliott Gould and you're listening to Kpfk, 90.7 FM in Los Angeles and 98.7 FM in Santa Barbara.
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MUSIC
The whole run by a handful of greedy bankers and CEOs who nobody elected. What can possibly last?
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MUSIC
I'm going to tell you when I'm finished. But you really only have.
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MUSIC
To remember your two words.
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MUSIC
Come on, you guys.
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DINO
If I go back to another episode of The Signal here on KP, okay, 90.7 FM in Los. Listen, I'm your host, Dino. And today we're going to bring you a very special broadcast. We're going to take a deep dive into one of the issues that is facing working people in California, across the country, and indeed in many regards across the world.
00:01:35:22 - 00:01:40:24
DINO
And that's the issue of wage theft.
00:01:41:01 - 00:02:11:09
DINO
In California or across, again, across the country, we are dealing with an issue that has for a long time been costing this country and workers billions of dollars. We're talking billions with multiple s. And today's episode, we're hoping to dig deep into this. We're taking a close look at one of the most devastating issues we're going to cover.
00:02:11:11 - 00:02:37:12
DINO
We're going to talk to some issue experts from university. We're going to talk to a local elected official who recently had a bill, Senate Bill 261, a measure that puts real strength behind the state's ability to collect unpaid wages from employers who refuse to pay. We'll be talking to the senator about that, and we're going to go a little bit local there.
00:02:37:12 - 00:03:09:03
DINO
After talking with the local agency here in the city of L.A. that looks to address these issues and give provide opportunities to individuals who've been impacted for recovery and opportunities for redress. And then we'll close out the program with an attorney from the president, legal services here, also in LA, who's going to walk us through what this process is like.
00:03:09:05 - 00:03:21:17
DINO
Throughout the program, we'll hear from researchers, law makers and advocates. And that is this episode of The Signal here on Kpfk. So to start us off.
00:03:21:19 - 00:04:06:17
DINO
We're going to go to one of the leading research voices on labor in the country, the Rutgers University worker Justice Lab has been studying how laws get implemented and what happens to workers after a bill is passed there. Beyond the bill, initiative takes a deep look at how enforcement succeeds or fails in practice. Joining us now is Doctor Jennifer Brown, who is based at Northwestern University and part of the Rutgers University Worker Justice Lab, here to talk to us about enforcement models across the country and what lessons we can learn from other places on what is working and what is not.
00:04:06:19 - 00:04:09:03
DINO
Doctor Brown, welcome to the show.
00:04:09:05 - 00:04:10:22
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah, it's great to be here.
00:04:10:24 - 00:04:26:11
DINO
So why don't we get started with some of the basic information? Doctor Brown, what inspired Rutgers University to work to launch the Worker Justice Lab? And how does that connect research to real world enforcement issues?
00:04:26:12 - 00:04:50:11
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. You know, what we saw is that there was a ton of innovative and really important legislation, labor legislation being passed across the country, both at the state and local level. But too often the idea of, okay, what is implementation? What does enforcement look like after the laws passed was kind of, you know, put on the backburner and wasn't a real focus.
00:04:50:13 - 00:05:19:01
DOCTOR BROWN
And so we started to see, you know, there were new offices of labor standards enforcement, especially at the local level that were being, created. And they weren't always adopting the most effective enforcement strategies, you know, that that they could have been adopting and some of the older, state agencies also, you know, had been doing the work they had been doing the same way for many, many years.
00:05:19:03 - 00:05:48:16
DOCTOR BROWN
And again, those were not necessarily the most effective strategies. And so we really wanted to, take a look at what the data was telling us about where, workers were experiencing violations, where agencies were expanding their resources, and where was the mismatch. Right. Where did there need to be additional, work done? And generally more proactive work done by agencies so that they were actually reaching the workers who needed enforcement of their labor rights the most.
00:05:48:18 - 00:06:02:01
DINO
And talked about exactly how big of a problem are we talking about, to the point where such a prestigious university and folks like ourselves have to develop these extensive research projects? How bad is it out there?
00:06:02:03 - 00:06:23:22
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah, I mean, the scale of wage theft is massive, right? It's a massive problem. And it's also one that's actually really difficult to measure. So, you know, just as an example of this scale, my colleague at northwestern, Professor Daniel Galvin, recently wrote a book called Alt Labor and the, The New Politics of Workers Rights, which I highly recommend.
00:06:23:24 - 00:06:50:17
DOCTOR BROWN
And he looked at how much workers lost just to minimum wage underpayment. Right. Minimum wage underpayment is just one, one type one form of wage theft. And so looking at just, just what workers lost from being paid less than the applicable minimum wage, he found that between 2010 and 2021, over 50 million workers in the US lost $155 billion from being, from being paid below their state's minimum wage.
00:06:50:19 - 00:07:05:12
DOCTOR BROWN
So annually this averaged out to nearly $13 billion each year, with each impacted worker, losing on average, $3,000 a year. Right. So just imagine anyone losing $3,000, and especially if you're a low wage worker, that's a ton of money.
00:07:05:14 - 00:07:15:11
DINO
And, Doctor Ross, let me get this straight. You're saying 50 million workers lost an average of 13 billion a year? Is that correct? Did I hear you right?
00:07:15:13 - 00:07:30:21
DOCTOR BROWN
But 50 million workers over over the study period. So that was 2010 to 2021. But when you average out from all of those workers, yeah, it's $13 billion a year. And for each individual worker it was $3,000 stolen from them on average.
00:07:30:21 - 00:07:37:05
DINO
Wow. So give us an give us a breakdown of what what is wage theft.
00:07:37:07 - 00:07:56:22
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. Wage theft can take many forms. Right. So like I said one of those is the underpayment of minimum wage. It could be misclassifying workers so that they're not getting overtime. Right. They're working more than 40 hours per week. But they're not getting paid a time. Time and a half. It could be total nonpayment, right? They're just not getting their paycheck.
00:07:56:22 - 00:08:15:03
DOCTOR BROWN
They're not getting the any of the wages that they work for. It could be stolen tips. It could be, you know, off the clock work. Maybe they're doing some of the work, doing some work before they clock in. That's wage theft. So it comes in many, many different forms. Which is part of the reason it's so hard to measure.
00:08:15:08 - 00:08:33:23
DINO
Right. And so what are the biggest challenges at a national level? Or perhaps you want to focus in on a local state level. What are some of the biggest challenges when it comes to the process of filing a wage theft claim? Collecting on the, those unpaid wages?
00:08:34:00 - 00:08:59:07
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. I mean, there's there's many, many challenges, right? So first, a worker has to know what their rights are. And then they need to know, you know, that somebody enforces those rights and who enforces those rights. Right. And how to contact them. And they need to be able and willing to interact with a government agency. There could be language barriers involved a lot of times.
00:08:59:07 - 00:09:21:16
DOCTOR BROWN
Right. There's a lot of research on retaliation and the fear of retaliation, keeping workers from moving forward and filing a claim. So there's many, many, you know, different challenges, that, that are involved just in getting to the agency that does the enforcement. And then for the agencies themselves, you know, what we see is really, really high caseloads right there.
00:09:21:18 - 00:09:48:22
DOCTOR BROWN
There are lots of workers getting to them. And so some agencies have very long waitlists rate. They have backlogs, sometimes that are multi, multi year long. They, you know, they don't have enough resources. And then you know too often we see agencies sort of treat every case exactly the same. Instead of really trying to prioritize those cases where, you know, the violations are most egregious, the workers are really low wage.
00:09:48:22 - 00:10:23:06
DOCTOR BROWN
There's a lot of workers being impacted. And so there's some, you know, some strategic, and, and, procedural issues that can really interfere with an agency's ability to maximize their resources, which then slows things down. Which can, you know, then actually lead to an additional backlog. Sure. And then once you get through an investigation, right, then you and the agency finds that a worker is owed money, then it's actually collecting that money, which is a whole other set of challenges, both legally and also, with resources.
00:10:23:06 - 00:10:46:15
DINO
And talked about. So you all created the beyond a Bill program to identify whether new laws were actually working and or not working. Can you give us an example of is somebody out there getting this right? Is there any particular state, any particular model, that is inching closer towards finding the right formula to help mitigate these issues?
00:10:46:17 - 00:11:13:07
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. I mean, no one's got it exactly right, right. In part because this is just a very, very difficult problem. But there's there's lots of, innovations happening around enforcement and implementation, especially in the last five years or so. And so actually, I think the state of California is one of those states that's doing a lot and trying a lot to really, you know, get closer to, you know, being more effective.
00:11:13:09 - 00:11:37:15
DOCTOR BROWN
And one of the things they're doing really well is partnering with trusted organizations on the ground, right, that already have the connection with workers who are most likely to be experiencing wage theft and other labor violations, and working with those organizations to identify, violations. And then they also are focusing specifically on high, high violation industries, right?
00:11:37:15 - 00:11:49:12
DOCTOR BROWN
Those industries that are that are high in exploitation, and where workers are having their rights violated a lot, and they're coming up with strategies for how to clean up those industries proactively. Right. So and I'm sorry, go ahead. No.
00:11:49:12 - 00:11:57:22
DINO
Go ahead. So Doctor Brown, tell us more about these industries. Who are the big violators when it comes down to this type of exploitation.
00:11:57:24 - 00:12:25:08
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. So, you know, we find through our studies, it's domestic work is always, at the top. So our, you know, restaurants, retail, janitorial construction, you know, it's low wage industries. That too often, you know, for, for multiple reasons are disproportionately employing, women workers of color and immigrants.
00:12:25:10 - 00:12:58:15
DINO
And Doctor Brown as, as, as our segment, you know, starts to wind down. There are concerted efforts all across the country here in California, indeed, here in L.A., where researchers and advocates are trying to bridge that gap to help policymakers develop enforcement models and other strategies that will, again, help mitigate these concerns. And in fact, we will be talking to, California State Senator Aisha Wahab, who helped author SB 261, which is one of those measures.
00:12:58:17 - 00:13:09:08
DINO
But is there any one location that is coming back to California that is that is providing a model program?
00:13:09:10 - 00:13:31:05
DOCTOR BROWN
Any one location in California? Yeah. I mean, the state labor commissioner is, is, I would say, sort of the North Star for many other agencies in the country, in part because of its size and funding, but also because of the strategic way it's been really trying to, clean up these industries that are so high in violation.
00:13:31:07 - 00:13:56:09
DOCTOR BROWN
So not just waiting for complaints to come in, but really creating a strategy, to try to, you know, go after proactively, employers that are undercutting their workers. There are some other really interesting things happening at the local level. Santa Clara County, for example, has been working with the state. So where an employer, has an unpaid state order, right?
00:13:56:09 - 00:14:15:04
DOCTOR BROWN
They've been found to be in violation. The state has ordered them to pay wages to workers, and they haven't paid those. If those, employers are located in Santa Clara County and they have a food permit, Santa Clara County will leverage their food permitting, and say, if you don't pay the state water, then we're going to pull your food permit.
00:14:15:06 - 00:14:22:17
DOCTOR BROWN
And that's proven to be really effective, getting those employers to actually pay the the wages that the state found were due to workers.
00:14:22:17 - 00:14:38:05
DINO
And Doctor Brown, the final question. So what message do you have to policymakers who are advancing these type of progressive and responsible, laws to hold people accountable? Moving forward?
00:14:38:07 - 00:15:03:12
DOCTOR BROWN
Yeah. I mean, you know, one are resources, right? So, agencies can't be effective if they don't have the staff, if they don't have the resources to, fully implement the laws they're charged with enforcing. We've seen sort of across the country as a lot of, really again, innovative policies have been passed. They're not always accompanied by the budgets, right, that are necessary for the agencies to staff up and do that.
00:15:03:12 - 00:15:39:12
DOCTOR BROWN
Enforcement. And yet the other piece of that, and this is also related to budget, but, you know, the work, of partnering with trusted community organizations, unions like legal, legal, nonprofits, right on the ground. You know, can't be overstated is incredibly important, especially right now where, you know, attacks on immigrant workers are so widespread. And so funding that work, right, making sure that those organizations have the capacity to partner with government in a sustained and meaningful way can also really increase the effectiveness of agencies across the board.
00:15:39:14 - 00:15:52:03
DINO
My guess has been that Doctor Jennifer Brown from Rutgers University Worker Justice Lab, based at Northwestern University. Doctor Brown, we appreciate the time. Thank you for joining the broadcast.
00:15:52:05 - 00:15:56:20
DOCTOR BROWN
Thank you.
00:15:56:22 - 00:16:04:20
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00:16:22:03 - 00:16:48:08
DINO
Welcome back. Joining me now is California State Senator, Aisha Wahab. I you show up located from the East Bay area of Alameda county. The district includes cities like Fremont, Hayward, Newark, and Union City. Central hub recently authored Senate Bill 261, the new law that is designed to tackle unpaid wage judgments that have left billions owed to workers in the state.
00:16:48:10 - 00:17:14:17
DINO
And as you just heard, Doctor John, around, describe just how problematic this issue is. Over a ten, 11 year period, 50 million workers lost something to the tune of tens of billions of dollars in this issue. And in California, the senator, is one of those policymakers who is trying to mitigate this problem through the legislative process.
00:17:14:23 - 00:17:17:13
DINO
Senator, welcome to the broadcast.
00:17:17:15 - 00:17:18:16
AISHA
Thank you so much.
00:17:18:18 - 00:17:26:23
DINO
So, Senator, let's start off with what drew your attention to this problem of unpaid wage judgments.
00:17:27:00 - 00:17:46:16
AISHA
Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting because Santa Clara County is one of the counties I represent, as well as Alameda County, Santa Clara County, both on a city level in multiple cities as well as on a county level. They pursue wage theft. They want to make sure that people are getting paid what they are owed. Right.
00:17:46:16 - 00:18:05:07
AISHA
And that's the missing piece for a lot of people. I want to make sure that people understand people have already done the work for the amount of money that they're supposed to be owed. And we just wanted to expand it further. You know, Santa Clara County and I have a great partnership. And being able to protect the most vulnerable community members is incredibly important.
00:18:05:07 - 00:18:32:05
AISHA
And I want to highlight that we have individuals in protected classes. For example, an individual who is 56 years old emailed me and said due to their hearing loss and certain disabilities, that they were dismissed and terminated from their work, but their final wages were capped. And so this law will help them be able to ensure that they get their money back.
00:18:32:07 - 00:18:44:19
DINO
So, Senator, you authored SB 261 to change the way in which state enforces wage theft laws. Give us a breakdown of what that bill was. And by the way, congratulations on passage of the bill.
00:18:44:21 - 00:19:14:05
AISHA
It definitely. Thank you I appreciate it. So overall, when a wage theft is happening, the employer basically steals the money of the employee. The employee pursues some type of legal action, hoping to get their money back. The labor commissioner's office is the one that views all the cases. And let's say that they agreed that there was wage theft in this particular case.
00:19:14:07 - 00:19:43:00
AISHA
They inform the employee and employer that you need to pay them back. Oftentimes, what we have seen in previous cases is up to three years later, that business will not pay their employee. And so what we're asking for is that they pay within six months of that labor commissioner's findings. And if they do not pay after six months, they get a three times penalty for not paying now.
00:19:43:06 - 00:20:02:04
DINO
So. So let me see if I understand. Right, right. So when we when we talk about the penalties or the mechanisms that are being introduced to make sure employers comply by way of your bill, essentially what you're saying is I'm going to hit you where it hurts. I mean, it's going to cost you more down the road. Is that correct?
00:20:02:06 - 00:20:31:15
AISHA
Absolutely, yes, because what I've seen is there's a lot of European laws that will go after a bad actor by the percentage of their gross income or profit. We in the United States give these very low ball fees, almost no penalties for employers. And the fact of the matter is that this white collar crime is a $15 billion hit to workers across the nation each year.
00:20:31:17 - 00:20:54:24
DINO
Wow. I mean, $15 billion. It's just you know, I've I've navigated some of these circles around wage theft for a while. And even now, you know, granted, on this side of the microphone, when I hear somebody such as yourself or Doctor Brown from Rutgers University, say $15 billion, that's just an astronomical number that is being stolen from everyday working class people.
00:20:55:05 - 00:21:24:11
DINO
The majority. Right? Yep. So yes, let me ask you this, because one of the issues that we periodically cover here on the signal is this dynamic between, you know, what constitutes worker justice and of and what what amounts to pressures by those in the business community. And in your case, what kind of support or opposition did you encounter during this legislative year as you push forward with this bill?
00:21:24:13 - 00:21:49:05
AISHA
Definitely. So obviously, the business groups came in early with their opposition. We had a number of conversations with not only the Chamber of Commerce for the State of California, but a lot of smaller businesses that wanted to ask questions. But we agreed to remove the provision that would have required the Labor Commissioner's office to create and maintain a list of nonpaying employers, quote, unquote, if you want to call it the wall of shame.
00:21:49:11 - 00:22:37:05
AISHA
Right. And I want to be very clear again, the money that is owed was already worked for. Right. So it's not that the business did not utilize somebody's service or labor or that it's, you know, something that's debatable. The individual worked for their pay and they're not paying it. So when we're talking about small business or large corporations and fairness, our focus is on the workers who deserve to be paid for what they actually gave their time and effort for, and then businesses that violate wage laws that engage in these unfair practices, you know, they will be given six months, but after about six months, if you still haven't paid that employee and oftentimes
00:22:37:05 - 00:22:56:03
AISHA
it's minimum wage jobs, you deserve to get penalized. And so I think that this is a very fair and flexible law, that says, hey, you know, the business can can wait a little bit of time. But at the end of the day, if you don't pay within six months, you will get penalized three times more than what you owe.
00:22:56:05 - 00:23:21:17
DINO
Where on the, we're on the air with Senator Aisha Wahab of the 10th district here in California, located across the East Bay, Santa Clara, Santa Clara, Alameda County, and others. And she is the author of SB 261, which was just signed by the governor a few weeks ago. That changes the way the state enforces wage theft laws, compared to what it was before.
00:23:21:17 - 00:24:06:22
DINO
And we're talking about this Billion-Dollar industry that is essentially, stealing from workers. Workers who already earned that money, who already worked, and did their job, and for a variety of different reasons. As Doctor Jen Round, shared with us from Northwestern University earlier, is, stolen from these workers and we're discussing opportunities for redress. And so let me ask you, Senator Wahab, how will this law affect small businesses who in all fairness, many of them are growing and, you know, this is always one of the issues that I hear a lot, that sometimes these type of laws hit everybody across the board.
00:24:06:24 - 00:24:30:23
DINO
And for those mom and pop shops, it's just as bad setting aside for a second that if you committed a violation of law. Listen, it doesn't matter how small you are, how big you are, you violated the law. So how does this law affect all businesses? Is it a uniform application or is there a consideration, when it comes down for example, for example, the the fines that you impose.
00:24:31:00 - 00:24:54:07
AISHA
I know it's a uniform application of the law. And I want to be very clear. I come from a family of small business owners. And the reality is, if somebody is spending 40 hours, 30 hours, 20 hours, even 60 hours working for you have already dedicated several days to and you are not paying them what you have legally agreed to pay them, and you're trying to keep it.
00:24:54:09 - 00:25:04:05
AISHA
That is against the law regardless if you're a small business owner or a babysitter, you know, or a large corporation, they did the work for you already.
00:25:04:07 - 00:25:06:10
DINO
So you owe them.
00:25:06:12 - 00:25:07:04
AISHA
Yeah.
00:25:07:06 - 00:25:25:16
DINO
Absolutely. So, Senator, let me close off. And by the way, I asked that question because I called one of our my producer called one of the, the business associations, and they that was part of their excuse to which I do understand, she replied with the simple response, that is what you just pointed out. But aren't you supposed to pay what you owe?
00:25:25:16 - 00:25:27:03
DINO
So yeah, just.
00:25:27:03 - 00:25:47:17
AISHA
And that's the thing. And I want to be very clear to some of the listeners to, businesses and the large interest groups that play in Sacramento, they don't really represent some of the smaller businesses. Number one. So I always pay attention to making sure that we are not hitting small businesses in a negative way, especially they are the backbone of our economy.
00:25:47:19 - 00:26:12:13
AISHA
But I also want to say it is the larger corporations that are taking advantage of this and making sure that they are targeting very specific people, seniors, vulnerable community members, black and brown people as well as, our immigrant population that are very afraid to ask for what they truly deserve. So I want to be very clear that there is no excuse for stealing from someone else.
00:26:12:15 - 00:26:26:11
DINO
Absolutely. And, Senator, in our last minute. So what outcomes do you hope to see a year from now, two years from now, five years from now? What is the best case scenario as we look forward to the future? With your legislation in place?
00:26:26:13 - 00:26:57:18
AISHA
You know, I want to make sure that people have, an opportunity to get what they are owed. Number one, first off, it shouldn't happen in the first place. But if it does happen, I want to make sure that there is some type of recourse there. I also want to flag that if the employer who is then found guilty of not paying in six months, gets hit with a three times as much of a fine, 50% of that three time judgment will go to enforcement in the labor commissioner's office, right.
00:26:57:19 - 00:27:24:09
AISHA
Just to make sure that they're going after these, bad actors and the white collar crime, and the other 50% goes to the employers. So it is very, very important for the businesses to comply within the six months. And the compliance is after they have been told and found by the Labor Commissioner's office that, yes, you have stolen from this individual, give them their money back.
00:27:24:11 - 00:27:37:19
AISHA
So I think it's a very fair law. In fact, I think it gives a little, more room for the businesses. But like I said, there are a lot of big actors and players in Sacramento that sometimes we don't get exactly what we want either.
00:27:37:21 - 00:27:54:17
DINO
My guest has been Senator Aisha Wahab from, Northern California, who authored SB 261 to change the way the state enforces wage theft laws compared to before. Senator, thank you very much for being with us on the signal.
00:27:54:19 - 00:27:59:17
AISHA
Thank you. Take care.
00:27:59:19 - 00:28:23:21
ANNOUNCER
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00:28:23:23 - 00:28:51:24
DINO
Law enforcement plays a plays out every day at the local level. In fact, the city of Los Angeles has an office that addresses these issues on a daily basis. The Los Angeles Office of Standards is responsible for enforcing the city's minimum wage and workplace violations. Protections. Joining us now is Kim Fitzpatrick, division manager, Office of Wage Standards, Bureau of Contract Administration for the city of L.A..
00:28:52:01 - 00:29:37:09
DINO
As we as we take a peek into how the department is approaching approaching issues of enforcement here at the city of L.A., just to recap, as you heard in our with our previous guest, Professor Jen Round, from the Rutgers University Worker Justice Lab was describing how problematic this issue is across the country. And in her and her overview, she shared with us how 50 million workers over an 11 year period lost tens of billions of dollars, annually or annually, actually $13 billion.
00:29:37:10 - 00:30:05:07
DINO
If memory serves me right. Then our second guest was describing our second guest. Senator Aisha Wahab was describing a recent legislative bill that, is looking to mitigate these challenges by fining nefarious employers who are not paying wages that were already owed. So, my next guest, as I said, is, Kim Fitzpatrick from the Los Angeles Office of Wage Standards.
00:30:05:11 - 00:30:07:09
DINO
Kim, welcome to the show.
00:30:07:11 - 00:30:09:09
KIM
Thank you so much for having me.
00:30:09:11 - 00:30:30:08
DINO
Thanks for being with us. So as I was describing the recap of our two previous guests, I want to focus our discussion with you more on actually, what is the Office of Wage Standards. So why don't we start there for listeners who may not be familiar? Can you explain what the Office of Wage Standards does and who does it serve?
00:30:30:10 - 00:31:04:07
KIM
Sure. The Office of Wage Standards, or ORS for short, is a city program that was established in 2015 when the city enacted its own local minimum wage law. We serve as a resource to employers to help them understand the laws and remain in compliance, and a resource to workers who believe their rights may have been violated. We also enforce the minimum wage requirements, which means investigating alleged violations of minimum wage and paid sick leave.
00:31:04:09 - 00:31:37:03
KIM
And when there is a violation, we collect back pay and penalties for workers. And occasionally fines as well, that are paid to the city by the violating employers. Since 2015, our office has also expanded its responsibilities, and we now help enforce laws that offer additional protections for retail workers, freelance workers, and hotel workers. I also want to mention that workers are covered by these protections, regardless of their immigration status.
00:31:37:05 - 00:31:52:00
KIM
The U.S. does not inquire about a person's legal status, so all workers can feel comfortable contacting us. And we also have translators available to answer questions and provide our services in a variety of languages.
00:31:52:02 - 00:32:03:07
DINO
And Kim, so what are we talking about here in terms of numbers and figures? Right. How many worker complaints does the department handle annually and and what are the most common violations?
00:32:03:09 - 00:32:38:02
KIM
We typically receive about a hundred complaints a year from workers who believe that a violation has occurred. Some of them are very narrow in scope and can be quickly resolved, and others turn into extensive, complex, company wide investigations. Right now, we have about 160 open minimum wage investigations. I'd say that by far the most common violations are minimum wage underpayment, such as when an employer fails to adjust the worker's pay when the annual increase is required every July 1st.
00:32:38:04 - 00:33:06:21
KIM
Sometimes employers just are late with the entire paycheck. The second most common violation is a paid sick leave violation. For example, full time workers in the city are generally entitled to six paid days off for sick leave, and that includes medical appointments for themself or a family member or other close individual. So sometimes these requirements are misunderstood and can lead to violations.
00:33:06:23 - 00:33:30:01
DINO
And I appreciate you referencing that. Of course here in early we have this very complicated, issue that is immigration enforcement. And in my experience, covering this issue in the past, we know that many workers will sometimes not report violations out of fear. So I appreciate you referencing, that point. So let me ask you this.
00:33:30:01 - 00:33:39:01
DINO
What are some of the biggest barriers other than issues of immigration and database collection and so forth, to enforce in wage theft cases in Los Angeles?
00:33:39:03 - 00:34:06:04
KIM
It's a great question. Unfortunately, there are a lot of challenges. And I do think right now the biggest one is probably the climate of fear. Because it makes us it makes it so much harder for us to learn about violations because workers are afraid to come forward or to participate in an investigation. I'd say another big challenge is the resources that some of these bad actor employers have at their disposal.
00:34:06:06 - 00:34:29:02
KIM
They can be very crafty in evading our investigations. Even just delaying them, which has a huge impact on a low wage workers ability to do things like pay rent. Purchase groceries and afford the basic expenses. So I would say those are probably the two biggest challenges right now.
00:34:29:03 - 00:35:04:01
DINO
And, you know, we recently had the Department of Consumer and Business Affairs on one of our episodes earlier this year. And there they described how this particular year has been key. Having community based organizations collaborate with them has been key to their ongoing success in reaching audiences and talking to constituents and then talking to those impacted. Now, the Office of Wage Standards, as I understand, has over the years developed similar relationships with community based organizations.
00:35:04:03 - 00:35:12:22
DINO
What are AWS coordinating capacity with community based organizations to reach vulnerable workers?
00:35:12:24 - 00:35:46:16
KIM
We are definitely increasingly reliant on those partnerships. Certainly, they are a essential way to help us bridge the gap between our office and the most vulnerable workers in the community. We know that they're trusted resources in the community, and they're great at helping workers feel comfortable bringing complaints forward. We're currently working on shifting to a strategic enforcement approach, and part of that will be prioritizing cases that are referred by our community based partners.
00:35:46:23 - 00:36:20:15
KIM
So that's one way that we can work with them and and utilize their expertise in identifying the cases that we should be focusing on. We've also worked with numerous community partners to perform outreach to industries that are particularly high risk of wage theft, such as car washes, warehouses, and restaurants. We're hoping to do more of that in the near future as well, and particularly with the World Cup right around the corner next year and numerous large sporting events leading up to the Olympics in 2028.
00:36:20:16 - 00:36:31:00
KIM
We're really hoping to ramp up our education efforts, and hope to prevent some of the violations that can often occur with these large events.
00:36:31:02 - 00:36:40:18
DINO
And Kim, you mentioned strategic enforcement. So for our audience who is not familiar with that as a, as a mechanism, as a tool, what does that mean?
00:36:40:20 - 00:37:22:17
KIM
Strategic enforcement, basically means allocating the, limited resources to achieve the maximum impact. And I think Doctor Round referred to this a little bit. It's perhaps prioritizing cases where the violations are the most egregious or where there's a larger workforce, or multiple types of violations. Rather than looking at all cases the same, it's sort of a recognition that we will probably, never, all agencies combined will never have enough resources to tackle this, this problem just because of its magnitude.
00:37:22:19 - 00:37:27:07
KIM
But we want to take the resources that we have and put them to the best use.
00:37:27:09 - 00:37:50:14
DINO
And as we wrap up in our final minute, what message do you have for workers who are concerned that maybe they've fallen victim to a form of wage theft, or have to file a complaint? But who say, I don't know that there's going to this is going to lead to results of anything. What message does AWS have for them?
00:37:50:16 - 00:38:12:13
KIM
I would say a couple things. One, workers who file complaints are legally protected from retaliation. I want to make sure that they know that that means that an employer cannot legally punish a worker by reducing their pay, or changing their shift, or reducing the number of hours. If an employer does that, that is something that we can enforce.
00:38:12:13 - 00:38:40:11
KIM
In addition to the potential wage violation. I'd also encourage workers to keep records of their hours worked and the pay received, take photos when they can document as much as they can. If an employer says that they can't take a sick day, take notes of what the reason was given. The more information that they can bring to us, the stronger the case will be and the better chance that it will read it will lead to real results.
00:38:40:13 - 00:39:03:22
KIM
And lastly, I think it's important for people to know that they can file anonymous complaints or have somebody file a complaint on their behalf. It helps us with the investigation. If we can talk to them directly and have names and ways to contact them. But I fully recognize that sometimes the, the, the risk for the worker and coming forward is just too large.
00:39:03:22 - 00:39:12:16
KIM
And so that anonymous complaint is still a way for them to put the situation on our radar and bring attention to that employer so that we can look into it.
00:39:12:18 - 00:39:28:18
DINO
My guest has been Kim Fitzpatrick, division manager for Office of Wage Standards, here in the city of L.A. under the Bureau of Contract Administrations and City of Los Angeles. Kim, thank you very much for joining us on The Signal. Look forward to having you back.
00:39:28:20 - 00:39:30:17
KIM
Thank you.
00:39:30:19 - 00:39:59:17
ANNOUNCER
ISIS escalating deportation operations around the Los Angeles area. But if you were stopped by Ice officers, you have constitutional rights regardless of your immigration status. If you or someone you know has been detained or wants to report Ice. More information is available at Shetler at (888) 624-4752 for legal help and resources. It is bilingual. More information at I rla.
00:39:59:19 - 00:40:03:01
ANNOUNCER
Org.
00:40:03:03 - 00:40:36:20
DINO
Welcome back to The Signal here on Kpfk 90.7 F.M.. This week's episode, we've taken a deep dive into this issue of wage theft and labor law enforcement. It's an issue that, we've covered before, especially during the summer, as some of the Ice raids have ramped up and, concern over nefarious employers looking to take advantage of people, from, you know, what we now know during today's episode is a multibillion dollar industry.
00:40:36:22 - 00:41:02:02
DINO
Thievery, indeed, is a type billion dollar industry and justice, issue area alone, which is, worker exploitation. Joining me now is Yvonne Medrano, attorney at BET's Adecco Legal Services and member of the Los Angeles Worker Center network. Now, as a matter for transparency, yours truly, the host of, The Signal. Do you know, I am a close affiliate of the Los Angeles Worker Center network.
00:41:02:04 - 00:41:33:02
DINO
But to bring this topic full circle, we're going to hear on what this process is like on the legal side, once somebody has indeed filed a wage theft complaint or a wage theft violation, and what happens once you get that investigation going from a legal perspective? All right. So Yvonne Medrano again, attorney with BET's Legal Services, has been working on these issues for quite some time.
00:41:33:04 - 00:41:59:09
DINO
And she'll walk us through the key reforms being proposed, including key issues. She and the network, the LA Workers Center Network, have raised over the last year that they feel are needed not only to improve the Office of Wage Standards, but ultimately strengthen the availability of resources accessible to impacted and vulnerable communities. Resources such as those within the Office of Wage Standards.
00:41:59:10 - 00:42:01:09
DINO
Yvonne, welcome to the show.
00:42:01:11 - 00:42:02:15
YVONNE
Thank you. You know.
00:42:02:17 - 00:42:22:02
DINO
So, Yvonne, let's let's start off with some of the basics, right. And we're dedicating a little more time to this topic on the legal end because we really want our audience, our worker audience, and we do have a lot to get a feel for what this how this issue can benefit them, especially those that have been targeted.
00:42:22:04 - 00:42:45:21
DINO
And we started off the episode, with, Doctor Jen Brown, who described as astronomical problem, this crisis, indeed, billions and billions of dollars being stolen from workers every day. And, you know, we talked to the senator, Senator Wahab, who walked us through her recent legislation on how she seeks to mitigate these challenges by increasing the penalties for workers.
00:42:46:01 - 00:43:30:02
DINO
And then, of course, we just had Kim Fitzpatrick from the Office of Wage Standards on the line describing how her office operates and functions. So let's go back a little bit to let's start with the Office of Wage Standards. The Los Angeles Worker Center network, organization of which your worker or your, better legal service is a part of initiated a research project that looked at ways to improve the Office of Wage Standards that ultimately led to a report that outlined possible improvements for this office.
00:43:30:02 - 00:43:42:16
DINO
But before we get to that, what is it like now when you attorney Yvonne picks up a case, you go to the Office of Wage Standards, walk us through that process.
00:43:42:18 - 00:44:15:18
YVONNE
So we just more recently started filing cases on AWS. We had taken a pause because we found that filing cases on behalf of low wage workers at AWS was not successful. Most of our cases were either rejected because the employer had closed down, or just required an investigation level that AWS does not have the capacity to provide because they are limited in their investigation.
00:44:15:18 - 00:44:40:03
YVONNE
Right. They're not allowed. Well, it's very difficult for them to issue subpoenas and really get to the to the real problems. And the real documents are they need to prove the wage that so for many years most low wage workers at least you know that workers that go through the worker center network or through their own worker center partnerships or through pathetic weren't bailing out AWS.
00:44:40:05 - 00:45:01:10
YVONNE
Now we've picked it up again more recently because AWS is they have phenomenal staff. We just heard from from the manager who is, you know, an advocate for workers and for employers and for a good Los Angeles working community. So we have very tough time again. But we still see the same problem where we file a case.
00:45:01:10 - 00:45:27:18
YVONNE
And because we work with a lot of low wage workers and in the that work in the underground economy, a lot, a lot of those employers will shut down as soon as we file a claim, or as soon as they hear rumblings of something happening. And AWS, you know, up until most recently has has taken the position that if the business is closed, they cannot go after that business because it's hard to collect, it's hard to investigate a business that is closed.
00:45:27:18 - 00:45:51:15
DINO
So so let's dig into that a little bit Yvonne. So so that our audience understands a little bit better what you're describing. So what you're saying is that on occasions a worker comes to you at Better Technical Services says, hey, listen, I think I've become a victim of wage theft. I haven't gotten paid. You conduct an investigation. Indeed.
00:45:51:17 - 00:46:03:02
DINO
There's a legitimate cause. There you go. After the employer and this individual says, well, the hell with it. I'm just going to close down and move on down the street. Is that what we're talking about?
00:46:03:04 - 00:46:04:09
YVONNE
That's correct.
00:46:04:11 - 00:46:21:22
DINO
And. Oh, AWS till now hasn't really had a mechanism to address this. What do we call this. There has to be all of these processes have a title or a name to it. When these employers move and get away with it. We can't go after them. But what is this called?
00:46:21:24 - 00:46:47:04
YVONNE
Yes. So in California, the labor code makes it very clear that an individual may be found liable for the wage theft committed by the business if they themselves were involved in low wage staff. So we refer to it as individual liability. Again, this is in the labor Code. The Labor commissioner does use this tool a lot. And if we file with the labor commissioner, we will name the employer the legal entity.
00:46:47:04 - 00:46:56:05
YVONNE
And individuals that played a role in facilitating the wage theft. That process has not been implemented at AWS.
00:46:56:07 - 00:47:08:19
DINO
And so that is a hinderance essentially, if anything, not only a hindrance, but as a strategic tool for those nefarious employers to get out of paying that responsibility. Would that be an accurate characterization?
00:47:08:21 - 00:47:32:04
YVONNE
Absolutely, absolutely. They are committing wage theft almost with impunity in Los Angeles because the alternative to AWS is the labor commissioner's office, which, you know, they are great. They are they do have more resources than other agencies, but they still do not have enough. And workers that file with the labor commissioner in Los Angeles are seeing a delay of up to four years.
00:47:32:06 - 00:47:51:22
DINO
So in the meantime, a worker files Yvonne goes in and says, hey, listen, we need redress here. We need an opportunity to recover. They're running around from one place to another, and the procedure that follows can last up to four years. What happens to the workers?
00:47:51:24 - 00:48:15:07
YVONNE
Well, because they often work with the worker centers. The worker centers, you know, they have that sense of community. They're in that context. So luckily, if they come to us, to bathetic, to a worker center, hopefully, you know, we try to maintain contact with them, but we also know that we can reach out to our community partners and make sure that our, our, our clients are still in contact, that we know where they're at.
00:48:15:07 - 00:48:36:03
YVONNE
That helps. But the reality is that oftentimes workers either lose interest, they move on, sometimes they self-deport. And now we have been seeing our clients who face deportation. So delays the longer the delay, the less likely we will see a positive outcome and money in workers pocket.
00:48:36:05 - 00:49:08:11
DINO
So understanding this, this is something that clearly you and your colleagues are bet. Saddiq and the Los Angeles workers on a network have been familiar with and followed a couple of years ago, the Los Angeles Work Action Network, in collaboration with some of the local L.A. city council offices, submitted a report on the issue of wage theft that resulted in a couple of motions and eventually one study in particular from the Chief Legislative Analyst's Office within the city of L.A..
00:49:08:14 - 00:49:12:20
DINO
What was that study about? And what were its findings?
00:49:12:22 - 00:49:36:16
YVONNE
So, there was a motion by, Council Member Martinez who we know to be a champion of workers, that motion resulted in a request for a report back from the CLA and the city of Los Angeles. And they focused on a couple of really great recommendations. One of them is that.
00:49:36:18 - 00:50:01:18
YVONNE
ORS should start also enforcing not only minimum wage violations, but over overtime and arrest and meal break violations, which they are currently not doing. So if you have a wage claim violation that includes arrest and you'll break in overtime, you and you go to ORS, you can only claim the minimum wage violations. This report recommends that ORS take other claims as well.
00:50:01:20 - 00:50:30:03
YVONNE
They also recommend that ORS develop, priority strategies in triaging where they, you know, be prioritized. May be employers that are repeat offenders or specific industries where wage theft is higher. They they offer ORS, explore information sharing with community partners. And also explore, additional funding and provisions because the office is fairly small for a number of of workers in Los Angeles.
00:50:30:03 - 00:50:35:02
YVONNE
And the further wage that that is experienced in Los Angeles.
00:50:35:04 - 00:51:12:05
DINO
So, Yvonne, clearly what you're describing is a need for reform, or at the very least, you know, if we don't want to use the term reform, sometimes elected officials become concerned with that. That kind of description, at the very least a bit more transparent. And, and oftentimes this particular situation sounds to me that it's one of those situations, as the senator pointed out earlier, where, you know, the issue stands on its own, it's a matter of you just doing what the law already permits you to do.
00:51:12:07 - 00:51:22:23
DINO
And is that the case with the Office of Wage Sanders? Are they not covering and or applying all elements of the law to their particular program?
00:51:23:00 - 00:51:46:16
YVONNE
We believe that they are not that they are. You know, again, recognizing their limitations and and the good people that work there, they have the legal authority to get to investigate individuals under the labor code. That's very clear. They have the they have the legal protection needed to go after arrest and meal break violations, but they're not doing it.
00:51:46:16 - 00:52:06:15
YVONNE
And you know what? We and this has been a battle for the past ten years. Right. And in the past what we heard was, well, we don't know if legally we can. So the alley workers in our network went to the city and passed a, passed a law that made it very clear local officials could enforce the entire labor code.
00:52:06:17 - 00:52:19:19
YVONNE
And now what we're hearing is that the office has a lot of limitations in terms of resources, which is which is fair and correct. So our responses let's give you tools so you could do more with those limited resources.
00:52:19:21 - 00:52:43:10
DINO
Now by limited resources. I'm guessing you're talking about and this is again an issue we've covered here extensively. And that's the billion dollar shortfall the city is experiencing and likely to experience, continue to experience in the coming months, and maybe even years. So let me ask you this. As we begin to wind down, limited resources is one thing.
00:52:43:10 - 00:52:58:24
DINO
Are there any other challenges or what have been the response by city officials beyond that of the limited resources? Has the city attorney, for example, come out and said, look, I'm done with you guys. Let's do this. Or any other office has presented challenges.
00:52:59:01 - 00:53:30:16
YVONNE
Yeah. You know, as as representatives of low wage workers that are difficult to unionize, right, because they work in garment carwash industries that are not unionized, industries that do not have lobbyists. We recognize that we are up against, you know, other needs of the community that are better financing. We are, let's say, so it is difficult to get on the radar of folks in the city and stay on their radar and stay low priority.
00:53:30:18 - 00:53:50:22
YVONNE
Again, we've had great partners like Council member system that's been this is office. But we have to say a priority for those folks. We have to make sure that low wage immigrant workers, that their voices are heard amongst all of the, you know, noise going on at city council. So that is something that is a is a priority for us.
00:53:50:22 - 00:54:09:16
YVONNE
And we really hope that it becomes a priority for the city and government officials here at work. If you want to help immigrant workers, this is one way that the city can do it well. We're very limited in what we can do in California for immigrant workers, but but this is one great way that L.A. can support the immigrant community in Los Angeles.
00:54:09:18 - 00:54:22:03
DINO
And, Yvonne, for our listeners who may say, hey, I might have an issue that I'd like, Yvonne or the folks I better technical services check out. Where do they get more information? How do they contact you?
00:54:22:05 - 00:54:50:21
YVONNE
So Patrick, legal Services are employment Rights Project helps any worker in the city of Los Angeles, regardless of age, race, gender, and regardless of immigrant. Immigration status. So if if a worker has a question about their rights, they can call, our phone number (323) 648-4767. They leave a message and we will get back to them and set up a time to talk, set up an intake and provide them with legal advice.
00:54:50:23 - 00:55:17:11
DINO
So once you get that number (323) 648-4767 for legal advice from Better Legal Services. My guest has been Yvonne Medrano, attorney at Better Legal Services, member of the Los Angeles Worker Center network. We've been discussing, some of the reforms proposed before the city of Los Angeles and improving the available resources for the Office of Wage Standards. Yvonne, thank you very much for joining the show today.
00:55:17:13 - 00:55:19:02
YVONNE
Thank you.
00:55:19:04 - 00:55:45:18
DINO
So full circle, folks. You know, as we as we wind down and close, you know, today's conversation reminds us that laws are only as strong as a system that enforces them, from the legislation to local campaigns to the fight for worker justice and for worker justice. These efforts continue every day in the workplace, in every community out there, and there's ongoing support among legislators.
00:55:45:20 - 00:56:19:01
DINO
SB 261 is a powerful new tool, but it will also take coordination and transparency and courage to make it work on behalf of those in the legislative offices in places like the city of Los Angeles. I want to thank our guest, Doctor Jennifer Brown, Senator Aisha Wahab, Kim Fitzpatrick from our ORS, and Yvonne Medrano at Betsy Legal Services for joining us today and our fabulous, production team, our producer, Adela Barbara, and our audio engineer, Sly rivers, and the entire team here at Kpfk for, supporting our broadcast.
00:56:19:01 - 00:56:40:21
DINO
Remember, you can always check out our show at the Audio archives@kpfk.org. I'm your host, too, you know, and it's been a pleasure to be on the signal with you all today. Stay tuned. Coming up is the next K-pop Kpfk show on the line. The car show is July.
00:56:40:23 - 00:56:45:19
MUSIC
I mean, not just the American government.
00:56:45:21 - 00:56:46:14
MUSIC
But government.
00:56:46:14 - 00:56:56:11
Unknown
In general. I'm here. I live in Beaumont. The same year.
00:56:56:13 - 00:56:58:11
MUSIC
With my five year old, and.
00:56:58:11 - 00:57:12:23
MUSIC
I said, I can all get inside and you get to get up outside of my duty. And like I say, I'm excited to travel and see you. Oh.
00:57:13:00 - 00:57:28:23
MUSIC
Senegal presidential. Look, if I, I make it, it's me with his hat. And if they look at me and say to him, then it's on two hands. They say, no, president. So let's get get.
00:57:29:02 - 00:57:42:05
MUSIC
I'm glad that he made it this way. The designer.
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MUSIC
Is giving me this. I won't get.
00:57:45:06 - 00:57:48:06
ANNOUNCER
I think again and I'm sorry.
00:57:48:08 - 00:57:54:05
Unknown
For your mama diet that people that want to get.
00:57:54:07 - 00:58:19:20
MUSIC
Inside my pockets by la la la la. Me and I was just going to get you. Yeah, that's my thing. I Tierra. He never get it I said that I believe I he ain't no la la la la song. I love them all. You yo what's up signal president.
00:58:19:20 - 00:58:24:10
MUSIC
But look at dice and let me get that smoothie.
00:58:24:10 - 00:58:29:10
MUSIC
Fat and thick. They don't get it. Then it's on.
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MUSIC
2010, y'all.
00:58:31:20 - 00:58:50:01
MUSIC
President get so can't get ain't credit back here in the best way that you got an umbrella like.
00:58:50:03 - 00:58:51:05
MUSIC
Yes I love.
00:58:51:05 - 00:59:08:14
MUSIC
You ain't dancing style. Saying goodbye to be. You just got a get.
00:59:08:16 - 00:59:38:01
ANNOUNCER
Vietnam Day from radio aphrodisiac. Join us every Saturday as we nice up your weekend. It's all about music from Africa and the African world. Radio aphrodisiac flight to 6 p.m.. It's jam little Creole LA from the coast of Curry Bay. Soca, Calypso, juju music. Musica afro. Cha cha cha, Afrobeat, highlife. It's all in the mix. Radio aphrodisiac Saturday is 4 to 6 p.m. Showtime.
00:59:38:01 - 00:59:39:07
ANNOUNCER
Tune in.
00:59:39:09 - 00:59:54:23
ANNOUNCER
You yo yo all and just oh in the face up I hold up and I gotta put it. That's the case. It's true. But I guess. And,
00:59:55:00 - 01:00:03:08
ANNOUNCER
Hi, this is Robby Krieger from The Doors, and you are listening to fiercely independent Kpfk, 90.7 FM.
